PepTalkHer Founder & CEO Meggie Palmer spoke with Michelle Cordeiro Grant, Founder of an amazing underwear brand, Lively. Michelle talked about creating a company to have work-life balance, her top tips for finding balance, her success in entrepreneurship, and selling her company for $85 million.
“Don’t fear the unknown, fear not trying.”
Having worked at Victoria's Secret, what was it about the industry that made you want to start something different?
Michelle: There were a couple of different reasons. One, I saw this amazing industry with $13 billion in revenue in the United States alone being dominated by one key player, Victoria's Secret with 30% to 40% market share, and two or three other fragmented players. Nothing had changed in two decades. The number one style from 1998-1999 told me that the category really wasn't evolving as quickly as society was. Couple that with humans now wearing athleisure. They're wearing leggings 24/7. They've gotten much more casual, yet the bra has not changed.
Personally, I felt like the marketing just wasn't speaking to me. I didn't look like a supermodel. I was trying really hard to be one. And I found that brands weren't speaking to human uniqueness and individuality. They were speaking to this one type of woman. I think that was really tiring for a lot of women for a long time. When I got married in 2011, I felt that I was going to have children one day. I wanted a brand that, when I had a daughter, she would feel so good being an individual versus trying the way that I did in my 20s to be a marketing campaign.
Then, I looked at my leaders. These amazing female leaders in this Fortune 500 company were kicking butt in their careers and they weren't kicking butt in their families or at home. I knew that I was on the same path. And if I didn't create my own culture and my own company, I, too, would be choosing career over people.
Meggie: I love that point that you made: wanting to start a company so that you can create the balance. I suppose the balance that you're looking for which a lot of people talk about is the work-life balance. I feel like a lot of big founders and CEOs talk about it, but maybe don't actually live it.
From what I've read and heard from the people that work for you, it's something that's really important to you. You just don't talk about it. You're quite genuine in wanting to create that balance. What has helped you do that? Because I think, it is a challenge for a lot of people who have their own business or who work for businesses and are trying to find that balance.
What has helped you create that work-life balance?
Michelle: Yeah, I think the most important thing is focus. Every day I reprioritize my day. You could work tirelessly. You could work up to 11 pm every day but that doesn't mean you're effective. So, I really lean into quality over quantity. Every day, I say what's going to drive the greatest impact and what is a nice to have versus a need to have and I push out the nice to have’s. I focus on the need to have and I put structure on my day.
I still have a schedule where I get up, I spend time with myself exercising, showing gratitude for the things that I love, spend time with my children, then I get to work. And then, I book in my day and force myself to shut down. It wasn't really until I had children that I was able to book in the day. I was always the last one in the office until I had Lydia. I realized that children actually made me more efficient. It made me more effective because now I was seeing things much more clearly.
Meggie: That's so interesting. The point that you made about becoming more efficient since you had children is so interesting to me. I find a lot of companies that we work with, often have this challenge of working mothers and feeling like they're not going to get the most out of them. But I always say to them: if you have a word for the working mom it’s 'they get stuff done, quickly.'
Michelle: Yeah! We don't have time to mess around. It's always Tick Tock. Make it happen.
Meggie: Do you schedule and you prioritize your day? For people who are looking for tangible tips, what are some that you have? Do you use a time block? Do you use that on like a written calendar? Are you all on the electronic? Are there any hacks that you have that we can steal and learn from?
How do you schedule and prioritize your day?
Michelle: Usually, on Sundays, I adjust my VIPs because I get so many emails, phone calls, and text messages. I think what the priorities are in the business. Right now, it could be the head of our warehouse, or the head of the customer service, etc. They're not always the VIP on my phone. I adjust to where I need to really focus.
The other thing that I do is write down every morning what I want to accomplish that day in a tiny, little notebook. I write all the things so I'm keeping track. By the end of the day, I could see if have I gotten to the things that really are critical today and at this moment, versus the things that I thought were going to be important according to my Google Calendar.
Meggie: That's awesome! It’s like taking back the control so that you're prioritizing it, as opposed to your inbox or your calendar. I had a quote that you said recently. You were talking about your success in business has been 80% psychology and 20% operations. Can you talk us through that?
How did 80% Psychology and 20% Operations play out in your business?
Michelle: Yeah, it really happened when I started my company. I thought success in entrepreneurship was how much you knew and how much you could get done yourself. It was really about the operations of it. But in fact, what I actually learned through mentorship that I was lucky enough to have with Tony Robbins and some other key leaders within business or Airbnb, etc, that it's really about your mental muscle.
As athletes are constantly working on their endurance to persevere through the game or the activities, it's the same thing with entrepreneurship. It's really about mental endurance. If you have the stamina and the mental clarity, you can solve pretty much any puzzle. You don't think of it as an obstacle. You think of it as a puzzle, like a physical challenge. And then, you can really enjoy the idea of figuring out. Otherwise, you see a world of problems. But, if you actually shift your mindset and the way that you think, you won't see problems as much as you see opportunities and puzzles. So, if you start to shift your mentality around the idea of a Rubik's Cube versus this uphill battle, things become a lot more fun and you can get things done much more swiftly.
“If you shift your mindset and the way that you think, you won’t see problems as much as you see opportunities and puzzles.”
Meggie: I love the concept of building that mental muscle. The topic that we came up with when I was talking to your team was this idea of Wild Heart, Boss Brain. That's a big part of your mentality within the business and the way you talk, isn't it? Talk us through a little bit about that.
Wild Heart, Boss Brain.
Michelle: I think women, inherently, see their emotions as a vulnerability. We're very women. We share our emotions, we wear them, and often we're trying to hide them at work and not show that we really feel and wear everything on our sleeves. What I realized is that that's not a vulnerability. That's passion, that's fire, that's drive. The more that we hide that and push it down, the less that we can be effective and really push out.
So, the concept of Wild Heart and Boss Brain is really take that emotion that we have as women and use it as an asset. Take that wild heart and combine it with business, and it can be really explosive. Wild heart, boss brain… Wear Lively.
Meggie: When you are hiring your team, you didn't hire anyone from the underwear industry because you wanted that kind of fresh perspective. Why was that important?
Why was inclusivity really key to this concept: the wild heart, boss brain for every woman?
Michelle: I think it was pretty apparent. This was in 2016. You know, social had obviously had a huge part in the world by now. I felt like individuality was really being spoken to in social media. Women were showing themselves in all-natural states yet there wasn't a brand that was doing that. So, I feel that as brand leaders and brand creators, it's our responsibility to actually tell the stories that society should feel that would inherently make them feel better.
What we do when we create products, it's not necessarily only about how the product makes you feel. It's how that logo with that product makes you feel. Ralph Lauren makes you feel prestige and luxury when you put on his Polo versus you put someone else's Polo on. The idea was when you put on Lively, you should feel passion, purpose, and competence. That will allow women not to just participate in what they love, but hopefully, lead. If they leave, they're going to create products that are more logical and if they're more logical, they're going to sell more. If they sell more, they're going to create jobs. And then, there's the economy.
Meggie: The ripple effect goes from there. You recently I had an amazing exit with the company. What do you think has been the one thing that you've done in your business and with your team that led to the success of the brand and the financial success as well?
What led to the success of Lively?
Michelle: First and foremost, we did not build the brand, Lively. The community did. It was an outward world that was deciding Wild Heart and Boss Brain. That's the tagline, this image, this product, this copy. So, we were letting society really drive the soul, then eventually, the momentum and the decision making of the organization.
Number two is we always put brand equity first. So, no sales, no markdowns, no price first.
And number three, we never compromise on core values. So we never said, 'Yes, let's distribute Lively everywhere and make a lot more money', or 'Yes, let's put Lively at 50% off.' We always said, let's do the right thing for the community, the brand, and the PnL will come.
Meggie: I love that word. Because again, I think a lot of entrepreneurs speak about living the values, but the reality is sometimes they fall short of that.
Was there something with your team or you as a leader did that helped you stay on that true north throughout the entire journey, and even still today?
Michelle: I think it started with our business model. We made sure that we had a business model that could be profitable to a degree. It's not that we're in the black but we knew how to run the model. We were really clear on the financials so that cash is king. Our cash flow was never wavering. As an entrepreneur, if you don't have cash in the bank, you're making compromising decisions. Cash keeps your mind clear.
First and foremost, we were crystal clear on how to create a P&L and KPIs that we could monitor and have sight of how things were running. When you have visibility, you can see and you can steer. You can move like no other. When you're clouded and you're trying to figure out the what versus the how, that's not good.
Meggie: That's so true. We have a question from Jacob, who said he doesn't have children yet, but that's in the plan.
Would you suggest that people who don't have children still add to that sense of urgency you mentioned that you have now because you have kids?
Michelle: Yes. Decide how many hours you're going to commit. Don't go out of that, unless it's extreme. Do I work crazy hours sometimes? For sure. But 70% to 80% of the time, am I staying within my structure? Yes.
The times that I do go over capacity, I find time to give back. So, I don't believe in Monday through Friday, 9 to 5. If I work all weekend, I'll take a Wednesday and give it back.
Meggie: I love that I love that. It's a short, sharp, inspirational start to everyone's day or in today's day for those of us joining us in the United States. Michelle, thank you so much for joining us on today's Power PepTalk.
What's the one piece of advice that's really helped shape your career throughout the amazing journey that you've had?
Michelle: I would say my favorite is “don't fear the unknown, fear not trying.”
Meggie: Oh, that really is gonna put everyone on notice. I love that. Don't fear the unknown, fear not trying. For anyone who's watching this, thinking about trying, my favorite quote is actually probably a similar ethos: Leap and the net will appear. Hopefully, there something to gain that can inspire people who are maybe on the fence to potentially take that leap of faith and try.
Where can people find Lively?
How can I get involved? It's an amazing product. It's very inclusive and you have the entire size range for all women.
Michelle: For most women, yes. So we are at www.wearlively.com, @wearlively on Instagram, and a hundred and 20,000 ambassadors all over social media.
Meggie: It's an amazing product and most importantly, a product that has really clear values and clearly a founder and CEO who lives those values.
Previously, we wrote something about What are Your Rights at Work and Top Tips to Pivot Your Career. You might want to go ahead and check it out.
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